1. Even if they don’t levy tariffs against us, you still see fewer exports. A commodity is a good or a service that is exchanged for money. A gas tax is a user fee charged to those who use the roads by those who own the roads. Those folks have a monopoly on the building and maintenance of roads, for all practical purposes, and the ability to extort money from anyone who sell fuel under threat of violence. Government may use force against me if I refuse to pay. No. “The Aristotle’s argument is basically that those who may be enslaved are inferior. Health historian, David Barton Smith, writes (in a draft chapter) that the fundamental struggle in the US has been over the question of whether health care is a commodity … But the cost of treating a child for a sore throat – your example – now costs a great deal more in relative terms than the price of a couple of chickens. Since you attended public schools, I can see why you would think so poorly of other people who graduated from public schools. Whether we succeed still hangs in the balance. If you liked this article, please donate $5 to keep NationofChange online through November. Nope. According to these experts, it’s good to import some things, be it goods or services, so long as it’s comparatively advantageous to do so. Theft may end up being my least immoral choice under the circumstances, but that does not make it a moral choice, or suggest that I have not violated your rights in pursuing my own needs. Yes. One Time. Please think these things through attempting to justify your incorrect views about international trade. In addition I am forced to pay for services for others who can’t afford to pay for them – whether or not those people even want the service they can’t afford. We provide the tools and information you need to accomplish this. Unless your answer is “Yes”, don’t look now- you’re an importer. “We are willing to fight for them and they are not really open for debate.”. Who here is opposed to US manufacturing? you’re on your own. “Sure, but isn’t that jury a result of your right requiring some kind of action by other people (in this case, sitting on a jury)?”. Of course there is a grey area over where you draw the line over how much services you provide, but as a principle, I think there are some things that community has to wear – and health is one of them. We cannot attach this movement to any political party or politician’s agenda. The slavers argued that a negro was property like a pig. “In addition I am forced to pay for services for others who can’t afford to pay for them – whether or not those people even want the service they can’t afford.”, “If you get the benefit of what you are being taxed for, it’s okay.”. “I understand that – always back the horse called “self interest” cause you know it’ll try the hardest.”. CTRL + SPACE for auto-complete. That is the issue that will continue in this country when these poor tongues of Judge Douglas and myself shall be silent. the others make it wobblier. y point is every job is outsourceable including the CEO job. It is the primary source of funding for defense and many other programs. We spend more than twice per person per year what other countries spend that have achieved this. You’re losing confidence rather quickly. But see… that’s a problem. Healthcare is a commodity—and a finite one at that. People may have a property right in any creature that is no human. i could care less what you or the state thinks is “fair”. There’s not necessarily anything wrong with that. Yep. “Trump knows this – that’s why I’m such a fan.”. How absurd. to them, it is a benefit. Many other species appear to defend their own individual sense of self determination just as humans do, but I doubt they think of that as having natural rights. You do make stuff up. So you are okay with theft and being unprincipled. (I’m not being sarcastic. Please explain how the laws of supply and demand do not apply when the supply of buyers is restricted on the basis of race. You would do much better if you used logic and objective and verifiable facts. The one is the common right of humanity and the other the divine right of kings. always. That is why adults stand up and say “Mr. This is why we say that the smallest incremental step that we can take in the U.S. is to create a National Improved Medicare for All, a universal publicly-funded health care system that relegates private insurers to a supplemental role to provide extras that the system does not cover. An import tariff is a de facto export tax. Thank you to all of you who wrote to his office. Just let your company know what you are doing. He’s quite the consummate thread hijacker. Mostly they are cheaper. Write CSS OR LESS and hit save. ”. Sure not every policy of his is perfect, but I’ll take the 75% on offer and the steal the rest later ! All humans will act to defend these rights instinctively. I can recall one instance when I had trouble finding a spot to pull off the road to change a flat tire without running over several corpses. 2. Do you grow all the food you eat? We assumed you were referring to education and medical treatment as products made by hand. our current tax system is theft. “But I suppose when you have nothing to argue on, personal attacks are all you can do…”. For example if a person is caught and tried for stealing a loaf of bread to feed their starving children, justice might not be served by the imposition of a mandatory 6 month sentence in county lockup. I understand that – always back the horse called “self interest” cause you know it’ll try the hardest. I’m all for lower taxes etc, but I could not in good conscience think people be refused basic health care because they were poor. Most developed countries in the world understand health care to be a public good, provided by government action to ensure all citizens have access to care. that seems like the pivotal distinction to me. Yes, you do. if other nations screw their people, that’s sad for them. The threat of getting badly mauled by a more capable lion may discourage theft of that lion’s dinner by another. You made stuff up then too. Its strengths are that it endeavors to achieve a universal Medicare for All system with more comprehensive coverage than what most people have now. As it turns out, a person may ignore a jury summons with little fear of consequences. They might change in future. Their point was to say that these are our assumptions and values. And, children cheer on emotional nonsense because they are economically ignorant. That’s what we learn from Ben Shapiro writing in National Review: The idea seems to be that unless you declare medical care a right rather than a commodity, you are soulless. The first is the normative judgement that the individual's It’s necessary to start from first principles that can’t be deduced from any other principle. This is especially true in advanced societies in which the opportunity cost of basic subsistence is fairly low, and killing someone else for their dinner may cost far more than it’s worth. give that to me or i shall do violence to you is theft. A victory this year is that there are bills in the House and Senate that outline a National Improved Medicare for All health care system, and they have record numbers of co-sponsors. Education is certainly not “made by hand” any more than McDdonalds Quarter Pounders are “made by hand”. I explain why your view is wrong, and you make another disparaging statement devoid of facts. Ultimately, the goal of every public health logistics system is to help ensure that every customer has commodity security. Like when he told you he the had to get off of Facebook because other people were too argumentative. They may not know you’re interested. Would YOU allow someone to die in the street for lack of money to pay for care? “On this point, the left are very good emotive language”. Deirdre McCloskey has written a lot on that subject. Jury duty is compulsory according to legislation. Did your comment address choice? I don’t recall anybody saying that. I mean that’s a yep to no slavery. Why would that be any different than having to pay for the hamburger you get at McDonalds? Angell … It currently has 119 co-sponsors, all Democrats, plus Rep. John Conyers, who introduced it. We urge you to reconsider if you wish to be taken seriously. I had almost forgotten.”. No, it did not. This suggests that you have been reading comments by Greg Webb. Yeah, I’ve noticed. That could refer to natural law, common law, or statutory law. it can just be exclusionary. . the state will, literally take no notice of you. It is. Part of the higher cost of medical care these days is the vastly improved state of technology that allows diagnosis and treatment of previously untreatable conditions. Those of us who believe that “all men are created equal and are endowed by their creator” do not make such a distinction. can it claim a right to enslave a mother and force her to carry it against her will? i would actually argue that the slavery thing goes the other way. Their point was to say that these are our assumptions and values. Have you seen people glorifying that imports are plus and exports are minus to the economy. At the time I didn’t realize the incredible irony, but just now it made me laugh out loud. Donation Total: Do you know what the argument for trade is? but that’s no reason for us to emulate them.”. Jon, taxation is not theft when it is for legitimate government functions. you can try to argue that someone is not human and thus can be treated like a horse or a dog, but that’s not really the same thing. It does not mean cutting the other taxes you are currently paying because government implemented a user fee. But we have no such rights in relation to private property. They are self-evident to everyone, including those who would disingenuously deny them. “Sure not every policy of his is perfect”. But, we can all look at both a negro and a pig and tell that they are not the same type of thing. And I believe you would see a lot fewer fair trials under an-cap because there would be fewer sanctions against impulsive vigilante revenge and more cases where one side was paying those conducting the purportedly “fair” trial. I think the analogy would have to be, society is forcing some health norms on you so you would expect the health care required to meet those norms to be provided. Healthcare is a right, not a commodity. it rises to the definition extremely clearly. Movements for social transformation have always been told they are asking for too much. They knew that those who said “you work and I will eat” would object to other people’s involuntary servitude. Major irony: the perceived, 2016 “change” candidate was and is utterly incapable of change. Not as long as the people trading think its fair. Are you trying to tell me that animals don’t bowl? “I do believe that both markets and nation states represent good examples of emergent order.”. Of course you are correct that any socially constructed right must be reasonably compatible with human nature in order to be meaningful. Morally, you have no right to demand medical care of me. Even Puck could see what fools these mortals be. They are not open to debate for anyone. Without those guarantees, why would anyone grant any of their powers to the state? could we not manage all volunteer juries? The reality is that most of these guys here spout their hard line ideological positions to the nth degree knowing full well in the comfort of their tax-payer subsidised tenured academic positions that they are sheltered from the negative effects of trade. Because medical care is a commodity, and treating it otherwise is foolhardy. pay the FAA (which ought to be private anyhow) most taxes can be user pays if we conceive them properly. We have a right to seek those things, but no one obligated to provide them to us. of course, this lack of notice shall extend to defending you as well. Such privileges and civil rights shouldn’t be confused with our natural rights which exist independently of the existence of government. Why does China, Germany, Japan, S Korea or even Europe try to export. You, as an individual, import those things you want but can’t reasonably make for yourself, and export that which you can make easily. If Senators vote before the September 30 deadline, they only need 50 votes instead of the filibuster-proof 60 votes to pass amendments. Nation states represent the “emergence” of the dominance of one group of people over another, generally larger group. And, you can read the law and court decisions on the internet. Just try to deprive anyone who opposes natural rights by taking their life, liberty, or property and watch how quickly they fight you. Contrast the relationship between the caller and the patient with that of my patient and myself. $5.00 Healthcare is not a commodity but a public good; Healthcare is not a commodity but a public good. Any person who says that health care is a right or basic necessity but supports keeping the existing market-based structure is either confused or lying. “Personally, I think you guys are the lunatics.”. natural rights may be enumerated by constitution, but this does not mean they can be made up out of thin are. Absolutely. That does not make it a valid argument. That is the kind of reasoning that caused Bentham to call natural rights “nonsense on stilts.” You are trying to simply define away the problem with some special pleading. Derived demand cont. Some were, and some weren’t so big on that “No mugging without consent!” thingy. Many progressive activists and organizations have mobilized since the election to offer well-documented opposition to highly dubious potential members of the Biden Cabinet. We created a chart comparing HR 676 and S 1804 and a chart outlining the transition for S 1804. they are not mere constructs, but rather a recognition of certain basic, timeless truths about humans and human association. So, what’s the solution for poor people? It is much more highly skilled, requiring far more training. that sounds like theft to me, although it’s probably one of the fairest forms of theft – if there is such a thing. That is because you are an idiot who cannot make a logical argument for tariffs. HR 676 would create a publicly-financed not-for-profit health care system. Of course people DO die when they rely on government provided and rationed healthcare. The kid determines the quality of his or her education, not whether he or she went to public school. And, I have lots of competition for my job. I was thinking about the history of the Smoot-Hawlet Tariff Act. But I suppose when you have nothing to argue on, personal attacks are all you can do…, “knowing full well in the comfort of their tax-payer subsidised tenured academic positions that they are sheltered from the negative effects of trade…. A gas tax is always theft. . (Note a toll device costs only $5 so if you live there it makes sense plus it works in the Orlando area as well.). Aristotle made the natural rights argument for slavery. “It’s not the same service. Extract from the Civil Society Report "Spotlight on Sustainable Development 2017" -the new global report assesses how privatization and corporate capture have become obstacles to progress under the 2030 Agenda. It will add to the economy. In fact the US Constitution and Bill of Rights acknowledge a few of the innumerable rights individuals have, and in every case forbids government to interfere with them. “But yes, the hypocrisy can be a little stomach churning.”. Like people who never graduated with a university degree yet criticize people who attended public schools. Is there any limit to this right? “They problem is that government exceeds its constitutional limits and then uses force to charge me way more for things that no one agreed to nor benefitted from.”. Every individual has the natural right of liberty. As I noted, my comment was directed at the specific instance of paying for roads that you use. However, if the internet service company charges me more than we agreed to, then it is stealing from me. Imagine my surprise that you still don’t have a valid argument against natural rights. I wonder if there’s a connection? Can you help me out of this mess?”. If you judge someone guilty and punish them for an alleged crime without a fair trial then you are violating any meaningful understanding of their rights. Rights are socially constructed. but we can still levy such a tax without it being theft. the world would be better if they didn’t. For those who say we should have anything less than a universal system, we ask: who should be left out? Thank god for that. Social interactions between two or more people may or may not include recognition of, and respect for these natiral instincts of the other party or parties, but I think that for the most part, people tend to seek agreement on mutually beneficial codes of conduct that provide the most benefits to themselves at the least cost, including voluntary trade, specialization, division of labor, and mutual defense. but the basic rights are all the same. When we win the fight for a universal health care system, it will represent a political sea change in the U.S. that will bring solidarity and empowerment to fight for the many other changes that we require. they also get it wrong. The result is an overreliance on emergency care, costs for which are distributed among government, hospitals, and insurance payers. Did you really think that I was saying that the mere fact that people made the argument made it true? All that foreign competition forces US manufacturers keep prices down and quality up. I want the legitimate functions of government such as national defense. Abraham Lincoln famously pointed out why when he eloquently explained why people could not be property. Have you applied for the job? We do not live in a vacuum. Good thing for you that they do, otherwise you’d be scratching in the dirt trying to grow enough food to feed your family (and not much else). Why would that be any different than having to pay for the hamburger you get at McDonalds?”. morganovich- “this seems like a really slippery issue and an impossible standard.”. Now with that the state could in principal charge you on a per mile basis, the mileage being collected on an annual basis during a auto inspection. “Some degree of centralized planning was necessary to defeat create fascism.”, “Commercial pizza-making has seen greater efficiencies due to prepackaged pizzas. You have a right to a trial by a jury of your peers. I know your views. A criminal act in which property belonging to another is taken without that person’s consent.”, http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/theft, “In common usage, theft is the taking of another person’s property or services without that person’s permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it.”. If we had the above situation, people would surely revolt. Who wouldn’t? (for the sake of discussion, let’s assume the tax pays for all road construction and maintenance). According to these “experts”, isn’t it good to import everything be it goods or services. Sure. Oh, I know. If one party or person takes ownership, then the issue can become a political football, as the ACA has become. We meant actual pizzas that are individually assembled and prepared by hand for immediate consumption on the spot. . Washington, DC 20036, Main telephone: 202.862.5800 We are willing to fight for them and they are not really open for debate.”. With complexity, comes greater costs. Let Ruthie emigrate to South Africa and see how she enjoys it. Here is Abraham Lincoln on the issue of slavery: “That is the real issue. We all know that no two individuals are exactly the same, but we also know that individuals are the same type of thing: human beings. Isn’t importing good. It is a social construct designed to protect our life, liberty, and property from the abusive state.”. in your opinion, which is often incorrect. “those who are as different [from other men] as the soul from the body or man from beast—and they are in this state if their work is the use of the body, and if this is the best that can come from them—are slaves by nature. Smith breaks up the past one hundred years into five phases and argues that in each phase, compromises were made that failed because they did not meet the fundamental criteria of covering everyone and achieving effective governmental oversight. Under HR 676, all people living in the U.S. would be included in the system, there would be free choice of health professional, the coverage would be comprehensive and care would be provided as needed without financial barriers. “Nearly 30 major banks around the world (now including all 6 major U.S. We counter our opponents through the principals of I.C.U. Put Huemer on the top of your “read next” pile. Let’s not forget your denigrating statements about those with public school educations. sorry for the divergence. Healthcare is not a commodity but a public good, and we want to see a strong commitment of government and IFIs alike to the implementation of the SDGs instead of pushing policies that deepen inequality and inequity. It turns out that peaceful cooperation and mutual agreements on codes of conduct generally provide better outcomes for everyone involved than war and plunder. As we waited for introductions, he whispered that I had “drawn the short straw.” Tito was more right than he could have imagined. Yes, I remember those horrible days prior to EMTALA when anyone who failed to carry proof of medical coverage with them at all times, was likely to be left to die, bleeding and unconscious, by the side of the road. Let us do that in every field. What nonsense. Our goal for the HOPE campaign is to achieve National Improved Medicare for All. I don’t want to have balanced trade with my grocer. . there are rights upon which they can be based and those rights are subject to natural laws. You aren’t forcing anyone to pay or provide the service, the government is. You just don’t see other species respecting rights and forming either representative governments or your beloved bowling leagues. It was just your typical name calling and disparaging statements that you do when you know you are wrong. He’s put himself in a unique position to make change. Ben conducted the pre-debate vote. Shapiro is a lawyer too so you know he is a good guy. Even Fareed Zakaria, conservative host of CNN, understands this. Sure, but isn’t that jury a result of your right requiring some kind of action by other people (in this case, sitting on a jury)? They refer to this as “stabilizing the market.”. It has been introduced every session since 2003 and it has broad support from the single-payer health care movement. Technology and the internet have increased the (potential) productivity of instructors by orders of magnitude. “it should be good for any desk job too.”, “Let us see how many of these free traders would take up my suggestion.”. “Like when he told you he the had to get off of Facebook because other people were too argumentative,”. It will take preparation and hard work. It would truly treat health care as a public necessity and not a commodity. Those trying to justify American slavery knew they were wrong too. I mean, as long as we don’t leave the country like all those progressive entertainers did when Trump was elected? . Agreed. We call the ‘public option’ a “Profiteer’s Option” because it will serve as a relief valve for private insurers to jettison people who need care. Did any famous economists at GMU recommend it to you? BTW thanks for reminding me why I no longer respond to Greg Webb. are commonly cited examples of such positive rights, and would require the state to compel someone else to provide them for us, and therefore can’t exist. C = Clarity – we must educate ourselves and others about basic health policy so that we understand what elements are required for the system to meet our goals and our needs. We understand it is human nature that people resist being forced to do things against their will, and to refuse to pay for things they haven’t ordered. But the bottom line in this fight is profit for a few, not health for the many, and so it is the public who suffers. ” . Yes, they keep talking about how import is great. It has strengths and similarities to HR 676 as well as weaknesses. There is nothing in our nature or God given, if you prefer, about a trial by a jury of our peers. this way, it’s all voluntary and consensual. As we continue to attempt to restructure how health care is measured, reimbursed and organized, we must hold true to the idea that health care is simply not a service commodity. However, it is extremely important to the structure of the Canadian system that the gov- ernment delivers health insurance as a public good, not health care. The purpose of government is to secure natural rights. To have lasting success, this needs to be a multi-partisan effort on the movement’s terms. Government loves user fees because that means more tax money to spend. For many people duty was the preeminent value.”. it’s a tricky question. I believe there aren’t, because they would require that someone be placed in our service to provide us with whatever we had a positive right to. The benefits to individuals of the emergence in markets is “self evident”. He has turned Jon’s comment section into a wasteland where the overwhelming majority of the comments are Greg Webb in an excruciatingly predictable and insipid conversation with himself. No. Because medical care is a commodity, and treating it otherwise is foolhardy. Or to put it more specifically, no to the right to profit, or benefit, from the forced labor of another. The Trump Train becoming less exciting as the days go by? In addition we see many species acting cooperatively as a group to mutual advantage in hunting and in mutual defense. not only do i not see the drug war as a benefit, i see it as a towering and needless harm. “The main arguments both in favor of and against slavery were both natural rights arguments for example.”. Examples are food, housing, cars, cute shoes, and healthcare. They are “progressive” values. Never mind that many Americans do not believe that public agencies are in fact providing adequate schooling, pollution control, and crime prevention. In which case, you stop mentioning it after the election and hope people forget. But yes, the hypocrisy can be a little stomach churning. There is nothing in our nature or God given, if you prefer, about a trial by a jury of our peers. I’m actually in a position that has lots of international competition. Practically, declaring medical care a right does not guarantee its provision. Jim Kavanaugh of The Polemicist argues that S 1804 may actually be a “Trojan Horse” for the Democrat’s favored proposal, a public insurance they refer to as a ‘public option’ being added to the current mix. It also protects against rights violations by individuals seeking vigilante justice.”. “Rather, they understand the necessity of taxes, but want a say in how those taxes are raised and spent. To go back to my example, why don’t the Red Sox fire David Price and outsource his pitching functions for me for 1/100th the cost? We should worry about both, not just one.”. Jury nullification would seem to be one more barrier between the accused and an unjust law, or against unwarranted prosecution where conviction would result in injustice. Until we in the United States decide to de-commodify our health care and health by implementing a universal, single, publicly financed, national health program such as Medicare for All, we will remain in our current state of ethical underdevelopment. every religion thinks it’s the religion of peace. “Their point was to say that these are our assumptions and values. It is fair to leave people be to peacefully trade with whomever they want, spending their own hard earned money on the things they want. “ And Jury nullification can work against the rights of the accused even more easily than it can work in their favor.”. It is disingenuous for anyone to argue that “You work and toil and earn bread, and I’ll eat it.” And, it is disingenuous to make that argument whether you are Aristotle or Stephen Douglas or Greg Gossip. He refers to these compromises as “more palatable approaches” that were considered to be politically feasible, but each “self-destructed.”, These failures, including the most recent ACA, have driven health care deeper into the pockets of private industry from the provision of medical services to the production and distribution of pharmaceuticals and medical devices. Our opponents are those who profit from the current health care system, such as the pharmaceutical companies behind the opioid epidemic, those who are ideologically opposed to public safety nets, the commercial media, as Yves Smith describes, and legislators from both major parties, even those who claim to be progressive, because our political system is dominated by Wall Street. “This suggests that you have been reading comments by Greg Webb.”. It is hypocritical to say you oppose taxes, except when you think the tax might benefit you. Thank God for government intervention, eh? I generally just toss jury notices when they appear. Markets represent voluntary associations involving mutually beneficially exchanges of value. Government services are provided whether or not I need or want them, and I must pay whatever price the seller asks. Health care's new maverickBy Geoff ColvinFortune, August 13, 2012What's the future of American health care?Massachusetts has been leading the way in health care reform, even if in the wrong direction. I think rights are probably our most important social construction. some are harder. The movement for National Improved Medicare for All has made great strides this year. It is the eternal struggle between these two principles — right and wrong — throughout the world. I don’t say that to trivialize them. So people should be free to trade as long as they’re satisfied it’s fair? Let me know when you come up with a valid argument against natural rights. Dr. Adam Gaffney traces and explains this trend from the 1940s to the present in “The Neo-liberal Turn in American Health Care.”, Make no mistake, currently, in the United States, health care is a commodity, and the profiteers are going wild. They are against any tariffs. Most interesting. You are trying to blur the distinction between a person voluntarily paying for something they want, and being mugged. Jon, I think there is a difference. But your necessity does not change the basic math: Medical care is a service and a good provided by a third party. The assumption we are making with the NHS bill is that healthcare is a commodity to be traded and patients are savvy, sceptical consumers. He did not imply that it was a natural right. We have a “right” to be secure in our persons, houses, papers, and effects from unreasonable searches and seizures – by *government*. That is what adults do. Main fax: 202.862.7177, © 2020 American Enterprise Institute |. In practice, no attorney wants someone on the jury who really does not want to be there. To elaborate further, on the question of rights, we should consider whether there are any positive rights at all. Or reduce taxes. Generally wrong roads are typically financed by road taxes, gasoline, registration fees and in some cases property taxes (typically only local streets). As I keep saying, I’m not against trade and I prefer lower tariffs to higher ones, but I am more interested in the art of what’s achievable. I happen to believe that there are no crimes against the state, but only crimes against people. “As hospitals are required to treat patients until they are stable, you now have a situation where it makes sense to provide basic medical care to treat chronic conditions that often lead to very expensive hospitalization”. As I’m sure you’re aware, jury trials developed as protection for ordinary citizens against the arbitrary tyranny of the king. Health care as an economic commodity. Of course serving on a jury provides a golden opportunity to practice jury nullification. Shapiro is a nasty guy. They include negative “rights” to life, liberty, and property. Do we have a choice? “Just let your company know what you are doing.”, “We can find a company in Phillipines or India who can do your work.”. maybe you get it a little wrong and it’s just wobbly or it will last for a time, then fall. “In which case, you stop mentioning it after the election and hope people forget.”. And they are never satisfied. We discuss what it will take to win and how to proceed. If you are sick, you now have the right to demand that my wife, who is a doctor, care for you. Your careless use of the word “investment”- a frequent habit of another person named Barry – has drained almost all meaning from the word. It sucked, but it’s not the company’s obligation to provide me with a job. fly? “But keep battling Ram – the people are with you and Trump on this.”. As such, I see those characteristics as natural and inalienable, independent of a persons awareness that they even have them, and independent of acknowledgement or respect of those characteristics by others. It’s easy to be pro-trade when your jobs are not in question. Because medical care is a commodity, and treating it otherwise is foolhardy. It is always the case that we are each better off when we pay as low a price as possible for the things we want and need. “ I’m all for lower taxes etc, but I could not in good conscience think people be refused basic health care because they were poor.”. One way it does so is with the right to a trial by jury. No, I’m not aware of any species besides humans that establish representative governments. Benthem believed that rights were granted by government, and that individuals had only those rights that other people allowed them. We have a “right” to trial by jury in this country, only because government exists, and has offered us certain protections against itself. . yet we have had religious wars for millennia. “He’s put himself in a unique position to make change. Many of them reveal great economic ignorance. It probably won’t work. Things always change. (1) That health care is most efficiently distributed by a free market mechanism; and, (2) That medical services are an ordinary commodity. I may recognize your necessity and offer charity; my friends and I may choose to band together and fund your medical care. this seems like a really slippery issue and an impossible standard. American Enterprise Institute Why would you want to be a fan of someone who does not understand basic economics? You’re welcome. You didn’t realize what a hornet’s nest that innocent comment would stir up, eh? No doubt that’s so. As you also surely know, jury trials are not the norm world wide, and are mostly found in countries whose legal systems developed from common law. Instead of name calling and making stuff up, we use logic, history, and objective and verifiable evidence. Is it a tax, if it pays for services received? Thus, it is “related to” a natural right. Because that is all they have. It also doesn’t address the monopoly issue of the provision of such services. Healthcare is not a commodity but a public good, and we want to see a strong commitment of government and IFIs alike to the implementation of the SDGs instead of pushing policies that deepen inequality and inequity. Period. President-elect, you are wrong about tariffs. “… why don’t the Red Sox fire David Price and outsource his pitching functions for me for 1/100th the cost?”. Absolutely. To make a commodity cheaper and better, two elements are necessary: profit incentive and freedom of labor. 1789 Massachusetts Avenue, NW The only step left is to eliminate the government monopoly on the provision of those services. I find this view to be inadequate as an explanation of the relationship between an individual and the world he lives in, including his relationships with other people. Jon Murphy asked, “It’s [the right to a trial by your peers] not related to life or liberty or property?”. It’s not related to life or liberty or property? . It is intended to protect people accused of crimes against the state from state tyranny by interposing other ordinary people between the state and the accused. If you get the benefit of what you are being taxed for, it’s okay”. That has been the property rights argument for slavery throughout history. Jon is exposing basic economics. At a recent forum in Brewster, several highly qualified people discussed the future of health care in the United States, specifically the idea of a single-payer system. Too bad for Jon. Interesting argument. I suppose that’s another possible explanation. I believe the individual is sovereign, and the collective is merely the aggregate of all individual members, with no superior status of any kind. Please explain how we can all voluntarily discriminate based on race through HOA agreements. A gas tax is theft. Tell me why I’m wrong.” This is how I began my … Just for fun. I suspect many people share that view. “, but I’ll take the 75% on offer and the steal the rest later !”. I know you believe that some magical political order emerges from the state, just as order emerges from free markets, but I don’t see it. Sure have the private sector deliver the services, but we can’t have people dying on the streets because they had no money to see a doctor. I believe in “fair” trade not “free” trade. You can’t. “You just don’t see other species respecting rights and forming either representative governments or your beloved bowling leagues. Those and millions of other products that are “made by hand” haven’t increased in price in any measure of individual income including number of hours worked at average or median wage/hr. Commodity security exists when every person is able to obtain and use quality essential health supplies whenever he or she needs them. “A fair trial doesn’t just protect against rights violations by the state. Yep. , ‘Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said that she would model new constitutions on the South African constitution, which guarantees that “everyone has the right to have access to health care services, including reproductive health care. To argue otherwise is simply a disingenuous argument using natural rights language incorrectly. You won’t be disappointed. No one is opposed to US manufacturing. Open the monopoly provision of government services to competition and watch the market work its magic as it does for all other goods and services. base a society on them and it will either stay up or fall down. I practice law for a living. It is unfair for people like you to limit my trades because you don’t like how I peacefully spend my own money. but I could not in good conscience think people be refused basic health care because they were poor. Health care as an economic commodity. “He has turned Jon’s comment section into a wasteland where the overwhelming majority of the comments are Greg Webb in an excruciatingly predictable and insipid conversation with himself. Government, at all levels, has exceeded the scope of their authority. The Canadian ”œsingle-payer” system eliminates these inefficiencies in one fell swoop, by creating a single manda- tory universal plan. 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Society prosecutes criminals, if society chooses to prosecute, it guarantees a right to defend yourself, including a trial by jury. Brick-laying and plumbing income has largely tracked median income, which had been growing until the last couple of decades. it just included or excludes from it. This is foolhardy, both morally and practically. Governments pretends to grant us various “rights”, which aren’t really rights at all, but merely promises by the state that it won’t interfere with our right to self ownership and self determination in certain areas of our lives. taxes collected from the unwilling by threat of violence are theft. Since society doesn’t require us to be sedentary, eat unhealthfully or indulge in other behaviors hazardous to our health, I wouldn’t expect society to compel others to pay or provide medical services for us. Investor-owned facilities are permitted to continue to operate within the system and budgetary controls that might restrain them were excluded from the bill. The problem my employers have is the same one that all employers have: “do we terminate a guy who have excellent technical and analytical skills whom the clients love and go with a younger guy who does not have those skills at his level who have had little connection with his clients. While I’masking hypothetical questions for the sake of it, is taxation always theft? President Obama’s ACA was written by and for the medical industrial complex to enrich the few, and he is already receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars for Wall Street speeches. We can eliminate all Professors and replace them online with professors from india/Phillipines/China etc. But keep battling Ram – the people are with you and Trump on this. I can find lawyer in india. Margaret Flowers, M.D., is a Maryland pediatrician seeking the Green Party nomination for the US Senate. HR 676 is considered the ‘gold standard’. In that case, why don’t we ship every damn service job including the poeple who comment here. How, exactly, can there be such a right without the government’s rationing care, using compulsion to force individuals to provide it, and confiscating mass sums of wealth to pay for it? Do you harvest the cotton you grow, process it and use it to make your clothes? If you’re concerned with the expense, it makes sense to NOT treat chronic conditions until a patient is near death, and will then cost the least to treat. However, that view does not allow you to compel others to provide a service at all. We are asking for what many other countries have and what we are already spending enough money to have – a health care system that is universal high quality and comprehensive. Many so called civil rights are acknowledgements that individual rights exist, and promises that the state may not interfere with them. In terms of lions and their dinners, the most dominant lions tend to get what is sometimes referred to as “the lion’s share” regardless of how the weaker lions feel about it. Kevin Zeese is an American political activist who has been a leader in the drug policy reform and peace movements and in efforts to ensure a voter verified paper audit trail. . Aristotle was wrong but he was not “disingenuous.” As for trying to justify American slavery, some sincerely believed the argument and some didn’t. What, do you think you’re being compassionate and caring by robbing some people you don’t even know to pay for medical care for other people you don’t even know? Pro 2 Instituting a right to health care could lower the cost of health care in the United States. When the founders said “We hold these truths to be self evident…” they weren’t literally claiming that they were self evident. “Ok then. ”. so how are we to resolve this inevitable divergence where that which one perceives as a benefit, another sees as an injury? “The purpose of government, Locke wrote, is to secure and protect the God-given inalienable natural rights of the people.” Thus, the right to a trial by a jury of your peers is related to the natural rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. (take, say 1% of awards and mandated settlements – though there might be some moral hazard there). Until then, just shut up. “A commodity is any good or service (“products” or “activities”) produced by human labor and offered as a product for general sale on the market.” Yard care has been increasingly mechanized, with immigrant labor used to minimize costs. Thankfully Trump is all over this issue. It has strong language protecting women’s reproductive rights and it removes most co-pays and deductibles. Markets are the solution in medical care, just as they are in virtually every other area. It didn’t with the “Hope and Change” crowd. The daughter gets well …”. so courts can generate income and use it to attract and pay jurors. societies are the same way. It is the same principle in whatever shape it develops itself. Your comment deserves more than a superficial response, and I have no time right now. All “tax” means is a financial charge levied by a state for public services (in this case, a road). No. It’s a good thing when assumptions are clear and openly stated. .’. In a better world, judges would have wide discretion in sentencing, and justice might be more frequently attainable. In reality, it is neither. I see that you are making stuff up again. Ram, not really. “You’re welcome to your imaginary world, one which is inconsistent with human nature, and the history of civilization.”. they were not “made up” so much as “discovered” in the same way that the arch was and they are not arbitrary nor flexible if you want to build a durable structure. "When I hear, healthcare is a right, what I hear is, 'healthcare will no longer have choices, we will provide it as a government commodity and you can wait in line.'" “Sometimes taxes are a necessary part of civilisation.”. I think rights are probably our most important social construction.”. “When the founders said “We hold these truths to be self evident…” they weren’t literally claiming that they were self evident.”. Even Breitbart kicked him out. Unfortunately, I probably won’t get to it until the summer, “If people wanted those things for which taxes are collected, they would pay for them voluntarily, and they wouldn’t be called taxes, and there would be no need for threats.”. I believe Mark Perry posted an excellent article recently about how US manufacturing is, by itself, the 7th largest economy in the world. You are absolutely right MP; but, when you live in a wealthy nation, governed by a democratic process, trying telling that to the people and getting elected to office. banks!) It regulates how doctors deal with patients, the sorts of training doctors must undergo, and the sorts of insurance they must maintain; all of this convinces fewer Americans to become doctors. And they are never satisfied. Imports and exports are good for an economy. Another weakness is the exclusion of long-term care and keeping it in Medicaid, which forces people and their families to live in poverty to receive benefits. Ram, are you going to hire a plumber from India to fix your broken pipes. Personally, I think you guys are the lunatics. My point is that, when people invoke natural rights they are stating their assumptions and values, not proving their conclusions. The government (we the people) prosecute and a jury of your peers (we the people) decide. Yes they are. This is how we did Medicare as a totally new system in 1965 before we had computers. If you are interested in some really interesting thoughts on this matter, and since I know you don’t read much these days (ha) I would highly recommend “The Problem of Political Authority” by Michael Huemer if you haven’t already read it. Work at a job good by SIEGFRIED G. KARSTEN * ABSTRACT which proposals are insufficient too, as... Been increasingly mechanized, with immigrant labor used to think as you do endear. On day 1. ” or end our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan he the had to out! Pharmaceutical companies have been acts of is healthcare a commodity or a public good and why, as each sector fights for control in reality it. A natural right defense and many other programs spend more than twice per person per year what other will! 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